I have received a lot of great feedback from people to my last post about morality and relativism in modern society. (Thank you all) It has set off a lot of hot-button issues (abortion, faith, morality) that I believe really need to be talked about openly, so I am going to break from my 'conservative response to liberalism' series for a moment and talk on this some more.
The latest comment left by an anonymous person chastised me for calling humans "infinitely more valuable" than animals. I want to take a moment to answer them very directly.
To The Anonymous Poster - While I may be wrong because I can only look at what you have written here, I believe you are an example of what I was talking about earlier; someone who has taken moral relativism and evolutionary theory to their full extent and drawn the only conclusion that can come from it - humans are not of any higher value, but are actually equal to animals, since we are just animals in the end. This theory, then put into action, leads directly to using a program like eugenics to selectively breed only the best humans to make a better and stronger race. (Hitler was trying this with his Aryan race experiments) (It was also, interestingly, started in the US around the time of the Depression, but was ended very quickly when people found out what was happening) While most would see this as a very dangerous path to go down, it really truly is naturally where relativism leads to.
Here's how I see it. This world was created in six, twenty-four hour long, days. When man was created, he was set apart from the rest of creation, made in God's image. (Gen. 1:26) And, as we all know how the story goes, Man became sinful and fell from God's glory (Gen 3). This was the start of redemptive history from the beginning of time, and continuing now. Man was told to "...subdue the Earth", (Gen 1:28). He was not told to walk along side animals as equals, nor was he told that he came from animals in a great evolutionary system, but that he was created "...from the dust of the ground" (Gen 2:7). This world is made for us by God to have dominion over (Gen 1:28), and as humans, we have spirits within us, we have reasoning minds, and we have a huge range of emotions, longings, and desires, as well as a conscience (Rom. 2:14-16), helping us to discern right from wrong (essentially, helping us follow God's word).
In our fallen, sinful world, we are taught by the "modern culture" that this type of thinking is foolish, yet it has never been proven wrong, and continues to show how right it is everyday. We are taught to have "open-mindedness". However, as the pastor John MacArthur says, having an open mind is a dangerous thing. It lets in all things, not discerning or sorting out information, but excepting it all. It's like having a house and leaving the door open at all times. Anything could come in at anytime, and if the door's open, who's to stop it. Of course, things could also leave at anytime. MacArthur's analogy fit's the modern "open-mindedness" perfectly, and we see where it leads people everyday.
So, in the end, you and I have two different places we are framing this argument from. I am looking at it from a biblical, moral absolutist standpoint (through faith in Christ), and you are looking at it from a moral relativist, evolutionary standpoint (through faith in naturalism). We are both assuming a starting point and going from there. To an outside observer, we really need to start this argument, then, from a new point - where did humanity come from, apes or God? Why do we have reasoning? Where did this world come from? Why? This would then allow us to move into questions such as the value of human life, the absolute or non-absolute morals that guide our day to day life, etc.
I hope not to offend anyone with what I have said, but I also hope that it makes people think about their situation in this life and where they stand in the grand scheme of things. Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and as always, feel free to leave comments and let me know your thoughts. Thank You.
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I guess I can't agree with you on the origin of the earth. I fail to see proof for religions absolutes. There are however, facts that science cannot prove or disprove either. Maybe you will, from this, see fit to call me an atheist, however that is not completely true either.
ReplyDeleteThere is a higher power, or powers, somewhere. I have trouble seeing the true Christian views though. How can GOD have told man to "subdue the Earth"? Wouldn't He have known that this would ultimately destroy what he had created?
Do you not feel that animals have souls? Do they not have emotions, desires or longings? I cannot fall into that way of thinking. I guess that will put me into your catagory of "open-mindedness" and make me dangerous?
If we are created in Gods image, and on of his attributes is compasion, how can we not have compassion for all things? And what is your true view of "the value of human life"? Why should humans be valued above every other living being?
It would seem that, morally, I can't see why humans should follow Gods words into the destruction of the world because we were told to subdue it. I thought man was supposed to "sheppard" the Earth and only take what he needed to live in harmony and balance. Wouldn't that ultimately make more sense?
BLESS GOD!!!! I am SOOOO excited to hear that you have given yourself over to and put your trust in Christ, Kelby! WOW. God is so amazing. I pray the best for you, your wife, and family to be and I look forward to seeing you sometime soon (whether it be in this life or in the other-side of eternity). Awesome, a new brother-in-Christ!
ReplyDeletePeace Out
In Him,
~Kale
To Kale Turney ~ Thank you for the support and prayers. I hope to hear from you soon and hope also that you would continue to be involved with what is happening on this site. Feel free to give insight into the topics and become part of the conversations... and good to here from you too :)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - I do not have much time this morning (work is fast approaching), so I will answer part of your posting now and get to the rest tommorow morning. I wanted, however, to make a quick comment on the 'higher power, or powers' you talked of.
If there is a 'higher power', that 'power' would need to have some type of involvement in this world, naturally, or there would be no reason for that being, or 'power', to exist, and no proof of that being's existence in this world or in the hearts of men. However, the Christian God is a personal God, holding men accountable for what they do in their life. This type of personal God is what many people want to avoid in their life, as it means that their actions have consequences, and that there is more of a purpose to life than just simply living and dying.
However, I see that as the hope of Christianity. This life IS more than just simply living, then dying. It has a goal, a purpose, and a reason; a final end result. Any other 'higher power' could not provide that, as it is impersonal and subjective - it would be whatever each person would want it to be. This type of 'power' then has no substance.
I hope I do not offend you in any way by talking so openly about this. I feel it is an important talk to have, and am glad that you are pursuing it.
One further comment before I must get going to work. Man was told to subdue the Earth, however, that does not mean destroying the Earth. Man was also told to be a good caretaker of the Earth. We cannot go around destroying everything in the act of subduing the Earth. That is wrong. I believe that the resources of this world were put here for us to utilize. However, we are not to abuse and destroy what God has created. There is a balance that is required in order to be good caretakers of this world.
Thank you for this conversation and your willingness to continue in it. I hope you will see it fit to keep this conversation going, and hope, once again, that I will not overstep my bounds and offend in anyway. Thank you once again.
~Kelby
http://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html
ReplyDeleteThis might help with the do animals have souls part.
"Wouldn't He have known that this would ultimately destroy what he had created?"
I'm assuming your speaking about humans destroying the earth. So far the earth has done quite alright for itself. The Earth is a very special planet, it's not just a ball of dirt and water. It's more complex, more frightening than anything man has ever created or dreamed of. It's a series of checks and balances.
If you read the Bible and take it to heart, (do some research and you'll find that science and the Bible do not contradict each other) you'll see that in the end, the earth is not destroyed by human beings. It's a very comforting thought to know that God's got it all figured out.
Sorry, to answer that question above, God is outside of time, all of time is laid out before him, nothing ever surprised Him. He KNOWS that humans will not destroy what he has created.
While God did tell us to subdue the earth, we are supposed to be good stewards of it and I would think that a lot of people try to be, but it doesn't take a genius to know that somethings missing or somethings wrong.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a higher power or powers and it/they is/are infinite, is it possible for there to be more than one? It's something to think about. If a religion were to believe that there are two gods and they're both infinite, is that really possible?
ReplyDeleteMr. Klemencic,
ReplyDeleteYou are very astute picking out that I was refering to the fact that MAN is destroying the Earth. I guess , according to what you say, we are in for quite a ride when GOD corects the current direction we are taking the planet right now then, huh?
I believe what you are refering to (in regards to the Earth) is GAIA. The initial theoy was posited by Lovelack back in the 60's. Also, that has been a belief for many cultures around the world forever. Maybe if it was for ALL cultures, we wouldn't be on the verge of a global climate collapse, but that discussion is for another day.
I didn't ask for a link to whether animals have souls or not. I know where I stand on the issue. I was asking Mr. Lovelady (or whomsoever choses to answer) for their actual opinions, not a simple citation. Feel free to elaborate your personal thoughts.
I did mention the fact that we should be good shepherds (stewards). A point on which we seem to agree: "it doesn't take a genius to know that somethings missing or somethings wrong." Hopefully it isn't to late, but there is a long list of idiots who have been driving the bus in the wrong direction wouldn't you agree?
And to your final point - many, many people and cultures (no I am not using people and cultures interchangably here) believe there are several Gods. This would seem to be viable to me. I have heard that ultimate power corrupts ultimately, so wouldn't that be an appropriate set of checks and balances?
Before you hyper-ventilate over that statement, let me clarify - I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE CHRISTIAN GOD IS CORRUPT!! PERIOD. I do not wish to belittle any individuals religion or beliefs and certainly do not want to offend anyone. It was simply a statement to get a point across.
I must correct a mis-spelling. In my earlier post, I said "Lovelack" was the person positing the Gaia theroy. I missed typed - it is "LOVELOCK", James Lovelock, and he named his hypothesis after the Greek supreme goddess of Earth.
ReplyDeleteI appologize for any confusion this may have caused should you have been searching the internet in vain for a Lovelack in relation to Gaia. You could also find it as the "Gaia Hypothesis".